OOC Chat

[Wu]

Yeah, it would be odd.

Especially when living gods are neighbors.

[Bayushi Umeno]

Could always offer the remaining tribes to become Minor Clans.

[Nozomi]

The Otomo didn't get their friggin job until the Gozoku...

Gah. I love the setting, I love the story, but MAN does the canon timeline not bear a lot of close scrutiny...

And in this setting, i can see Shiba doing Minor Clans as a way of splitting the difference- his more aggressive sibligns get people to admit that they're clans in the Empire, the people int he Minro Clans get to not feel like they're being whipped into discarding everything they are.

The Otomo as a bureaucratic power-house and manipulative force was definitely a direct retaliation to the Gozoku alliance. In truth? A lot of the Rokugani timeline is rife with "Learning Experiences" resulting in major changes over time as the Rokugani who were slow to change and stubbornly reticent frequently had to learn a very hard lesson before changing their approach, and sometimes taking drastic measures. The Otomo were eventually more of a stymieing force to progress than they were beneficial in earlier centuries.

[Shoji Haka]

The Otomo still did stuff pre-gozoku, it was just general Imperial stuff (and not the constant meddling and trolling that they do in more recent timelines).

[Seidou Satone]

As the person trying for this, my idea is as follows:

-A state within an empire:
Create a protected land that is its own state within Rokugan, follows completely different leadership, and is autonomous. It would be led by a council of members from all tribes who join, who would be elected from within their own communities. The likelyhood of this happening however are incredibly small, as it offers little to the Kami and Rokugan as a whole.

-A family within a clan:
Create a family within a clan that follows the same leadership as a state within a state, but is led by a Daimyo elected by that council.

-A minor clan:
Same as above, but as a minor clan instead of a family.

[Hantei Kinsen]

The original Phoenix are actually the "family within a clan" you described (yet a Clan). Ruled by the Elemental Council. The Champion only a mere diplomatic façade.

[Ko]

Minor clans are cool and I like them a lot normally, but establishing them this early doesn't make a ton of worldbuilding sense to me, I admit. In canon they appear after the great clans are already pretty well solidified around the edges, and the first--and for a long time, only--one is actually created under the patronage of a kami, in a certain sense (the Hantei line promised Shinjo to look after the future Fox). If the Kami let humans declare their own tiny little clans left and right at a very early stage, the great clans won't be able to consolidate nearly as much, and I get the impression that all the Kami (even the soft-touch ones) share the same overall goal of unifying the land under divine leadership.

At this stage there are probably a lot more advantages to being part of a great clan family rather than trying to do your own nominally-independent thing, anyway. If you're engaged with the Empire at all, you're not going to be insulated from cultural drift regardless of whether you report directly to a Kami. Might as well take charge of your fate and get all the benefits of the relationship! Or at least that's likely to be Ko's perspective by the end of things.

The original Phoenix are actually the "family within a clan" you described (yet a Clan). Ruled by the Elemental Council. The Champion only a mere diplomatic façade.

True, though that doesn't stop them from being hella oligarchic.

[Togashi Saruko]

If there was a Reaction-function or a Like-button I would be abusing that now for Ko's post. Thank you. <3

[Seidou Satone]

Yes, family or independent state within the empire are the two that make the most sense to me, and the ruling body I described would act much like the Phoenix and their elemental council.

[Hantei Kinsen]

I believe each Clan will have their own way. The Lion often with the best warrior from one of the Families, the Crane mostly like the Stag: by primogeny. Dragon with their eternal Champion. Etc...

[Seppun Dawei]

What y'all are saying makes sense.

But I'm still for the Alliance. Maybe in the next generation, after Kami start getting...fractious. Or dying.

And I still love me my Kudo.

[Jiyo Sora]

Oh, at this stage, it's barely a glint in my character's oracular eye... But I, his player, have my own enthusiams.

[Nanzi]

As the person trying for this, my idea is as follows:

-A state within an empire:
Create a protected land that is its own state within Rokugan, follows completely different leadership, and is autonomous. It would be led by a council of members from all tribes who join, who would be elected from within their own communities. The likelyhood of this happening however are incredibly small, as it offers little to the Kami and Rokugan as a whole.

-A family within a clan:
Create a family within a clan that follows the same leadership as a state within a state, but is led by a Daimyo elected by that council.

-A minor clan:
Same as above, but as a minor clan instead of a family.

That seems like a terrible idea for even someone like Shiba, why start a rival state within your own Empire?

[Nanzi]

As much as I love the Minor Clans and supported the MCA in canon timeline, I actually don't want to see a whole lot of Minor Clans popping up yet in this timeline.

But, to each their own.

I mean we could and then crush them.

Or almost crush them like the Dragonfly.

[Ch’chit T’kkiri]

State-ception.

Deep State.

Drain that State.

[Jiyo Sora]

That seems like a terrible idea for even someone like Shiba, why start a rival state within your own Empire?

Yeah, Shiba is compassionate, tolerant, and humble, but he's also a "big picture" kind of guy- I can't help thinking he would see that as asking for trouble down the line.

[Jin]

I think vassalage is likely to arise before Minor Clans. If you can't get a Kami to give you Family then find a Family to give you protected status within it.

[Seidou Satone]

Yup, which is why a family is the most likely route to go. The whole idea about a state within the Empire is like "There's going to be a lot of rebellion and war, but this could ease it" and it isn't a very compelling argument. Like I said, it's not very likely to happen at all

[Togashi Saruko]

It might be hard to get to found a Family in a clan though. It was the highest reward possible in Dawn 1, and not everyone got the chance to do so.

So might require pooled goals or something?

[Seidou Satone]

We will see how it pans out. Jin has offered Satone basically a vassalage inside the Jin family of the Unicorn, and Wu seemed like they were offering a complete family within the Dragon