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Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:58 pm
by Canary
Jiyo, the Emperor’s bodyguard and champion, realizes the need for the Empire to have a codified legal system applicable to all. However, she is not the only one with an influence on such matters.
This poll will run for three days.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:30 am
by Bayushi Umeno
*votes last, shakes fist at sky*
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:37 am
by Nozomi
Pffft. We're only 15 votes in. There's 30+ of us, and I suspect at least 20 will come back to vote...
It can still swing!
...ok, this one's less likely to, but it can!
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:41 am
by Nanzi
I see where this is going.
*shakes fist.*
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:45 am
by Nozomi
Nanzi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:41 am
I see where this is going.
*shakes fist.*
At present, yours is the only real alternative that's making traction. Heh. I'm holding this vote in reserve for now. Seeing where we are tomorrow, when we've got 25 votes in or so...
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:46 am
by Ch’chit T’kkiri
This one was only going to go one way.
Forgery replaces Iaijutsu as the most important skill for legal matters. XD
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:52 am
by Nozomi
Ch’chit T’kkiri wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:46 am
This one was only going to go one way.
Forgery replaces Iaijutsu as the most important skill for legal matters. XD
So, truthfully? Yeah, I kind of could have called this early. It's been an old, long-standing dislike of many players how much Rokugan relies on Testimony, Sincerity and the Status/reputation of the speaker. The Kitsuki have a massive fanbase for a reason (and 9 times out of 10, it's going to be a Kitsuki magistrate, not Doji or Soshi, if it's a PC). So, when they have a chance to actually enact a legal system? yeah, this was going to be a pretty likely outcome.
That or "Magic Rokugan" or "Duel for the Win." Something that avoids the traditional quagmire of canon L5R law. And right now? Duel to Win or Evidence-Based are winning out solidly.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 am
by Nanzi
I love the current Rokugan law system, because it really speaks to the core of samurai drama, trying to do the right thing even when you legally can't.
Kitsuki method just makes it like any other fantasy game with law. CSI Fantasy land.
But I understand the appeal.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:12 am
by Ch’chit T’kkiri
In theory option 1 is a mix of Kitsuki stuff and dueling.
“Handle your own legal matters. When you fight each other though we will collect testimonies and evidence and make our decision... but if you’d like to duel it out or make some other arrangement please do. We’ll stamp anything you do on your own... but if you can’t agree we’ll do it for you.”
But no one likes Imperial oversight... So cest la vie.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:41 am
by Nanzi
I mean we have like 5-6 Imperial families we might not have a choice.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:16 am
by Togashi Saruko
*becomes an Imperial family that deals with magistrate stuff*
JK
But I did vote for duelling since that is one of those odd things I like about L5R (despite being a fan of the Kitsuki, but I
like that the Kitsuki method is considered this radical way of thinking
).
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:18 am
by Togashi Nadare
Yeah, also voted for duelling. It's one of the core L5R elements . Plus I was never that excited about the Kitsuki method.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:09 am
by Hantei Kinsen
Nanzi wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:05 am
I love the current Rokugan law system, because it really speaks to the core of samurai drama, trying to do the right thing even when you legally can't.
Kitsuki method just makes it like any other fantasy game with law. CSI Fantasy land.
But I understand the appeal.
So many times this.
Else it is like being in the Old West and not being able to gunsling into victorious justice.
Not being able to duel to get a matter resolved would make the whole setting somewhat less interesting, to me.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:21 am
by Ko
Dueling in vanilla Rokugan is used to resolve all sorts of disputes not amenable to evidence-based solutions, many of which aren’t even about crimes at all. That hardly seems likely to go away even if dueling isn’t central to criminal law enforcement.
Early modern Europe and North America had civil and criminal legal systems in which dueling played no part at all, but young men still shot and/or stabbed one another over matters of personal honor and reputation all the dang time.
I didn’t vote for Kitsuki Rokugan myself, but I assure you that there is plenty of room for weirdness, eccentricity, violence, and status/honor games in a premodern legal system that incorporates physical evidence. So much room. Lots. @_@
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:22 am
by Miyako
Will find a way to take advantage no matter what the preference ends up being
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:26 am
by Nanzi
Ko wrote: ↑Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:21 am
Dueling in vanilla Rokugan is used to resolve all sorts of disputes not amenable to evidence-based solutions, many of which aren’t even about crimes at all. That hardly seems likely to go away even if dueling isn’t central to criminal law enforcement.
Early modern Europe and North America had civil
and criminal legal systems in which dueling played no part at all, but young men still shot and/or stabbed one another over matters of personal honor and reputation all the dang time.
I didn’t vote for Kitsuki Rokugan myself, but I assure you that there is
plenty of room for weirdness, eccentricity, violence, and status/honor games in a premodern legal system that incorporates physical evidence. So much room. Lots. @_@
I am not doubting that but it does take something fairly unique to this setting.
There will be blood and ways to game the system, I just hope it takes into account the unique aspects of the social setting that will hopefully still matter.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:09 am
by Canary
I would like to make note that the only thing changing in the alternate options is how to determine the culprit or who is in the wrong. It's only a modulation of Jiyo's system as people discuss with her what the best way to approach that particular issue is. Dueling emphasis combines whodunnit and resolution a bit.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:32 am
by Canary
With that clarification in mind, I have opened the poll to change your vote of you wish, since my initial intent was unclear.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:58 am
by Shinjo Koyama
I voted for what Jiyo wants. I feel no stake in this (perhaps I should, Kolat stuff and all, I know the lore), but one thing I have always strongly disliked about polls is how they can frustrate agendas a person has invested a lot of thought, rp and effort into.
Re: Poll: The Imperial Legal System
Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:07 am
by Ch’chit T’kkiri
Jiyo’s player isn’t grumpy about any outcome. Birb asked for a possible outline. I gave her a bastardized brand of Kamakura bakufu law in an attempt to keep dueling a thing but let people do other things in their own clans if they wanted because I know dueling isn’t everyone’s thing.
In the end, Jiyo is gonna listen to the best idea (the one that wins the poll) and implement that. Jiyo’s player isn’t invariably attached to any of the options.