Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

User avatar
Canary
Posts: 1260
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 11:50 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Canary » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:34 am

Jiyo Sora wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:32 pm
Also a test of Shiba's ability to actually rule, which, let's face it, has never been the character's forte. The guy is most famous in canon for kneeling.
I know what his response will be. Hopefully you will all find it interesting.
GM + Bird + Glorious Plumage + Experienced

"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No, no, no. Quicker. Easier. More seductive."

User avatar
Jiyo Sora
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 10:03 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Jiyo Sora » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:36 am

Wu wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:32 am
Jiyo Sora wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:26 am
Wu wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:24 am
This is overly focused on one trait
Most courtier schools are ;)
I guess don't play them often!
More a quip about how a dedicated courtier can cheesedick their way through a game on nothing but Awareness and some secondary Willpower. Courtiers are L5R's kings and queens of min-maxing.
ImperialAssassin and Babysitter • Experienced • Bushi • Evil Eye • (The Worst) Sage (in Rokugan) Team Hikaru • Disturbing Countenance • Willow • Blessed by Fukurokujin

Wears: Either a very simple kimono in Imperial colors or light armor strapped on over Hikaru garb and facepaint.
Carries: An array of weaponry, some traveling rations, a couple of lightweight trade goods, and some dried flower petals.

As of Late Night, Day 7, has a servant- a young woman named Kinyôbi

Status: 4.0 Glory: 4.0 Reputation: 1.5

User avatar
Togashi Saruko
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 2:30 pm

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Togashi Saruko » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:40 am

- School needs a tag

- The Honor on this school is... really high for a Crab school. Like really-really high.

- School skills should include Calligraphy, considering that the outfit comes with a calligraphy set. I'd suggest Skills to be: Calligraphy, Etiquette (Courtesy), Lore: History, Medicine, Sincerity, any 1 High skill, any 1 Bugei skill. <- this gives some more diversity on characters.

- Would suggest changing One Heavy Weapon to Any 1 Weapon.

Now for the techniques. We have Kitsuki Investigator for a fighty courtier as well as Asako Loremaster for smarty courtier to draw comparisons with.

-----------------------------------------
Rank 1: Clever Solution
A number of times per day equal to 2+their insight rank, a Xia Chronicler may use Intelligence as their Skill Trait when making a social roll. Xia chronicles also gain +1k0 on all Intelligence based rolls.

I'd drop the Trait-swap and keep the bonus to Intelligence rolls. The Trait-swap techniques isn't something that's really done all that often in L5R (because the system is already supposed to be changeable on traits if the GM calls for it), and the X+Y mechanic is something 4th edition has tried to steer away from. I also see that you're trying to squeeze in some combat stuff on Rank 2, but I think that would work better on Rank 1, similarly to Kitsuki Investigator (remember, Rank 2 is usually the secondary focus of the school and does, in most cases, only one thing).

Suggestion:
Whenever you make an Intelligence-based Skill Roll or Trait roll, you add +1k0 to the roll, and an additional +1k0 for any Lore Skill roll. In a skirmish, you add your Intelligence Trait Rank to your Armor TN.
-------------------------------------------

Rank 2: Do Little Harm
Xia was a skilled healer and her school reflects that. Chroniclers gain a free raise on medicine rolls to heal wounds and cure disease or poison. However, while the Xia are trained for diplomacy, unlike other courtiers they do not wholly neglect the ways of the warrior. In a skirmish, you add your Intelligence Trait Rank to your Armor TN.

Remove the ATN bonus, since my previous suggestion was on moving it to Rank 1. That way you've cemented it as a fighty-courtier on Rank 1, and Rank 2 can adress the secondary focus of being a healer.

Suggestion:
You gain a Free Raise on all Medicine Skill Rolls to treat wounds or curing disease and poison, and whenever you roll to determine the number of wounds healed, you may add your School Rank to the total.

---------------------------------------------

Rank 3: Brilliant Solution
Increase the bonus from the Chronicler’s Rank 1 to +2k0 to intelligence based rolls. Your IR 1 technique may now be used for all non-bugei skill rolls instead of just social skill rolls.

This is where Courtier schools usually start to specialise on specific things (which their Rank 1 technique will usually support in some way) instead of just "Rank 1, but better". I'd honestly just want to redo this entire technique into something that really focuses on what the school is all about other than just "we're smart and sometimes we fight and sometimes we fix wounds". This is where something like the Intelligence-swap idea from earlier could come in, but with a more specific focus in mind. I could offer suggestions though?

----------------------------------------------

Rank 4: Near Total Recall
At this level the Chronicler is entrusted with the true history of the empire as detailed by Chroniclers stretching all the way back to Xia herself. The character gains the Forbidden Lore: True History of the Empire advantage for free. This secret insight is extremely useful to a cunning Chronicler, you gain +1k0 on all rolls targeting Samurai, Nezumi, Ogres, Trolls and Kitsu of higher status or equivalently higher status.

I didn't know there was a Forbidden Knowledge advantage for the True History of the Empire? I think I need the idea behind this one explained?

----------------------------------------------

I'll get back to Rank 5, but my opinion on it more or less loops back to the opinions on Rank 1.
Dragon • Ayakashi • Saru Daimyo • Wife of the Dragon • Storyteller • Artisan • Blessed by the Heavens • Monkey Soul • Spirit Walker • Heavenly Voice • Friend of Shinsei • Tattooed • Enlightened • Experienced Shirayuki
Reputation: Cunning (3.5) • Status: 7.0 • Glory: 9.0

Theme 2Profile
Has: Padded armor, jian, bo, dancing fan, flowing robes, jade, shiny necklace, sea-shell bracelet, flute (dizi), hand-drum, painting supplies

User avatar
Canary
Posts: 1260
Joined: Thu May 07, 2020 11:50 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Canary » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:46 am

Anjing Xia wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:56 pm
Rank 4: Near Total Recall
At this level the Chronicler is entrusted with the true history of the empire as detailed by Chroniclers stretching all the way back to Xia herself. The character gains the Forbidden Lore: True History of the Empire advantage for free. This secret insight is extremely useful to a cunning Chronicler, you gain +1k0 on all rolls targeting Samurai, Nezumi, Ogres, Trolls and Kitsu of higher status or equivalently higher status.
The true history this is referring to is a specific thing, from my understanding, that doesn't exist at this point.
GM + Bird + Glorious Plumage + Experienced

"Is the dark side stronger?"
"No, no, no. Quicker. Easier. More seductive."

User avatar
Jiyo Sora
Posts: 1756
Joined: Mon May 11, 2020 10:03 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Jiyo Sora » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:47 am

Canary wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:46 am
Anjing Xia wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:56 pm
Rank 4: Near Total Recall
At this level the Chronicler is entrusted with the true history of the empire as detailed by Chroniclers stretching all the way back to Xia herself. The character gains the Forbidden Lore: True History of the Empire advantage for free. This secret insight is extremely useful to a cunning Chronicler, you gain +1k0 on all rolls targeting Samurai, Nezumi, Ogres, Trolls and Kitsu of higher status or equivalently higher status.
The true history this is referring to is a specific thing, from my understanding, that doesn't exist at this point.
And given Kinyoubi's role in setting up the library system, might never...
ImperialAssassin and Babysitter • Experienced • Bushi • Evil Eye • (The Worst) Sage (in Rokugan) Team Hikaru • Disturbing Countenance • Willow • Blessed by Fukurokujin

Wears: Either a very simple kimono in Imperial colors or light armor strapped on over Hikaru garb and facepaint.
Carries: An array of weaponry, some traveling rations, a couple of lightweight trade goods, and some dried flower petals.

As of Late Night, Day 7, has a servant- a young woman named Kinyôbi

Status: 4.0 Glory: 4.0 Reputation: 1.5

User avatar
Nozomi
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 8:43 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Nozomi » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:50 am

Anjing Xia wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:50 am
Post has been updated with the new School.
So, may I ask:
Is this school functionally centered around the concept of controlling cultural progress through controlling the method of historical recording and establishing the educational norms that establish "What is" the case historically, thus using "the true history of rokugan" as an internal guidepost to help point the directions of the broader courts subtly through the manipulation of how people are taught to believe?

If so, I'm going to go out on a limb and make the suggestion that conceptually that's not bad, but you're about three centuries ahead of the game on that effort. Such study of the chronicling of history and its use in helping to control cultural direction is not generally found within the formative steps of the founding of an empire, though I suppose it could be argued that Li Si and those who came before him got into that thought process at least somewhat during the establishment of the Qin.

In canon Rokugan movements like these came into existence in response to the Gozoku, with the establishment of the bureaucratic variant of the concept, manipulating the structure of governance by the Otomo. Unless Xia has extraordinarily far-reaching aims as a historian for this period in history... I think some of the foundational precepts of the school are premature.

Mechanically? I don't see a lot of problems, though Saruko brings up some good points.
Fluff wise, I think we have a bit of a wagon before the horse moment.
Disciple of Shinsei * Experienced Phi * Disturbing Countenance * Former Rappa
Status - 1.0, Reputation - "What is Expected," Glory - 2.0
Wears/Carries: Ashigaru Armor, Sturdy Clothing, Xun (Flute), Tonfa x2, Yumi w/ Arrows, Jade Bracelet
Profile * Theme Song * It's pronounced "Fee" * (The safe word is "Sea Cucumber")

User avatar
Anjing Xia
Posts: 348
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 1:13 pm

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Anjing Xia » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:55 am

The lore advantage is pretty much directly lifted from the Ikoma Historians alternate path tech.

We already have quite divergent histories in Rokugan, and this school is intended to exist into the future, where presumably more events will happen and more history will be created. I don't feel it's a particularly big concern if next year in dawn 3 it might be possible to somehow hit IR 4 on a courtier school and then get +1k0 to rolls against higher ranking opponents.
Crab • Seidou • Niece of the Daimyo • Surprisingly Literate • A Little Awkward
• Here To Help • Front Line Combatant • Recorder Of History
Reputation: Respectable• Status: Lowly • Glory: 3.0

User avatar
Togashi Saruko
Posts: 1537
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 2:30 pm

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Togashi Saruko » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:06 am

I think it's probably better to focus on Rank 1 to 3 for now, and leave 4 and 5 open to be fleshed out more fully as the world takes more shape. :)
Dragon • Ayakashi • Saru Daimyo • Wife of the Dragon • Storyteller • Artisan • Blessed by the Heavens • Monkey Soul • Spirit Walker • Heavenly Voice • Friend of Shinsei • Tattooed • Enlightened • Experienced Shirayuki
Reputation: Cunning (3.5) • Status: 7.0 • Glory: 9.0

Theme 2Profile
Has: Padded armor, jian, bo, dancing fan, flowing robes, jade, shiny necklace, sea-shell bracelet, flute (dizi), hand-drum, painting supplies

User avatar
Nozomi
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sat May 09, 2020 8:43 am

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Nozomi » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:13 am

Anjing Xia wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:55 am
The lore advantage is pretty much directly lifted from the Ikoma Historians alternate path tech.

We already have quite divergent histories in Rokugan, and this school is intended to exist into the future, where presumably more events will happen and more history will be created. I don't feel it's a particularly big concern if next year in dawn 3 it might be possible to somehow hit IR 4 on a courtier school and then get +1k0 to rolls against higher ranking opponents.
Nah, like I said earlier. Your mechanics are a non-concern.

I don't believe we're dealing with extensive divergency in historical chronicling yet. Certainly not enough for a "True History" to develop as a historian backlog as a "Forbidden Knowledge." Within a couple centuries, yes. Presently there's some disparity among verbal transmission of spoken accounts. Considering literacy is little more than a few decades or less old in some places, that's to be expected. The effort to build a historian body is logically sound. Reaching the point of a "Forbidden Knowledge," implying that the history of the empire is a dirty secret whose knowledge has negative consequences, is a bit pemature.

Let's have a Great Famine or Shiba Jama first before such things come into existence.

But the floating 1k0 is fine as far as I'm concerned.
Disciple of Shinsei * Experienced Phi * Disturbing Countenance * Former Rappa
Status - 1.0, Reputation - "What is Expected," Glory - 2.0
Wears/Carries: Ashigaru Armor, Sturdy Clothing, Xun (Flute), Tonfa x2, Yumi w/ Arrows, Jade Bracelet
Profile * Theme Song * It's pronounced "Fee" * (The safe word is "Sea Cucumber")

User avatar
Jiyo Ayumu
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun May 10, 2020 10:44 pm

Re: Crab Territory Expansion & Courtiers- End Game Goals

Post by Jiyo Ayumu » Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:37 pm

Unless they explicitly asked to remain anonymous, would be cool to list all those who contributed to this goal and how their influence was instrumental in making both of these goals. Because more fluff is good.

I'm always worried about "you may used A instead of B" techniques from a balance perspective... But in a context where most courtier schools just hand out Free Raises, it might work fine.
Imperial | Former Isawa | Bushi | Artisan | Skeletal
Outfit in camp: No weapon, no trinket (D1-D7), jade (D9+) | On patrol: Light armor, yari, bronze sword, yumi + quiver
Status: 1.0 | Glory: 1.0 | Reputation: What Is Expected | Description

Post Reply

Return to “Out of Character Chat”