OOC Chat

[Togashi Saruko]

It makes sense that there's lots of little groups tucked in here and there.

[Nanzi]

Makes it easier to wipe them out.

Ahem, assimilate them.

[Doji Kaze]

I feel the need to point something out, because it is irksome to me.

Kaze's worldview is pretty odd, and might come across as cute or precious, but I'm trying to describe/create a space for the kind of Empire I want to play in. If things turn out the way some folks talk about ooc, I think it would be a mistake. Genocide, cultural or otherwise, is not a foregone conclusion. I find the argument that the clans are just bigger tribes with bigger tyrants that are doomed to create an unjust and kleptocratic system to be unimaginative first, and an abdication of our agency second. If the clans do that, then it's on us. We wrote it. What a wasted opportunity that would be, to not even try to build something better.

I mean, utopia isn't an ideal playing space either. There ought to be some conflict, and I don't expect that a perfect system is going to emerge. There will be flaws and unintended consequences. Those are interesting. But casually discussing wiping out everyone like it's a foregone conclusion (or the obvious motive of the kami) is accepting a limitation that doesn't exist unless we choose to impose it. If that's the world players want to create, grand, but I find it difficult to stomach.

I recognize that ooc chat is a bad place to get a handle on player motivations, and it may be that I've read all of this much more seriously than it was intended. But you must recognize that what we laugh and joke about leeches into the text of the game. And in the course of this campaign, that text supplies the development of the setting. If we intend to create a nightmare, that's not ideal for me, but I know others enjoy that kind of thing. We should be creating it open-eyed, though, instead of finding ourselves there because our sense of humor hamstrung us.

Meanwhile, I'll be working for the rest of this game to make Rokugan a slightly less awful place. Don't know how to accomplish it, because I missed the game where power was handed out and it's hard to be a pollyanna in the dark ages, but I'll do the best I can.

[Jiyo Sora]

I feel the need to point something out, because it is irksome to me.

Kaze's worldview is pretty odd, and might come across as cute or precious, but I'm trying to describe/create a space for the kind of Empire I want to play in. If things turn out the way some folks talk about ooc, I think it would be a mistake. Genocide, cultural or otherwise, is not a foregone conclusion. I find the argument that the clans are just bigger tribes with bigger tyrants that are doomed to create an unjust and kleptocratic system to be unimaginative first, and an abdication of our agency second. If the clans do that, then it's on us. We wrote it. What a wasted opportunity that would be, to not even try to build something better.

I mean, utopia isn't an ideal playing space either. There ought to be some conflict, and I don't expect that a perfect system is going to emerge. There will be flaws and unintended consequences. Those are interesting. But casually discussing wiping out everyone like it's a foregone conclusion (or the obvious motive of the kami) is accepting a limitation that doesn't exist unless we choose to impose it. If that's the world players want to create, grand, but I find it difficult to stomach.

I recognize that ooc chat is a bad place to get a handle on player motivations, and it may be that I've read all of this much more seriously than it was intended. But you must recognize that what we laugh and joke about leeches into the text of the game. And in the course of this campaign, that text supplies the development of the setting. If we intend to create a nightmare, that's not ideal for me, but I know others enjoy that kind of thing. We should be creating it open-eyed, though, instead of finding ourselves there because our sense of humor hamstrung us.

Meanwhile, I'll be working for the rest of this game to make Rokugan a slightly less awful place. Don't know how to accomplish it, because I missed the game where power was handed out and it's hard to be a pollyanna in the dark ages, but I'll do the best I can.

Not gonna lie, part of Sora's abhorrence for what Nanzi (IC) advocates is that I've got some firsthand experience witnessing a slow-burning cultural genocide in my home state. We're walking ti back a bit- thank fuck- but there are also reasons Sora chose the Kami he did- while taking issue with many of the others.

[Nanzi]

I am flippant about destroying cultures by nature because that is what happened in the base game, it's nothing personal.

I actually don't find the system in L5R unfair or cruel, it's a system that works and makes the game distinct from most other fantasy settings. Equality, equity... these things are not a concern for a setting that is couched in ideas of appearances and justice being a return to normalcy not so much righteous good.

Your concerns are mine in reverse, I honestly dislike a lot of the happy touchy feely stuff as a player, it's creating a setting that I probably won't want to play in the long run but I don't mind developing in the short run. There is plenty of room to affect things, so stay the course.

[Togashi Saruko]

I'm mostly interested in seeing another version of Rokugan, and I greatly enjoy power to the players to make interesting changes. Already I think we'll see a more tolerant and accepting Rokugan, because of a different Kami as Emperor, as well as the fact that Shiba married a man (thus now already throwing away the strict male/female matchups of regular L5R). But we're still early in and there is a lot still up in the air that may or may not change.

I personally want to see opportunities provided to a lot of the new ones to contribute to the setting, since I feel I've already put my mark on it.

[Hanzou]

I expect we'll still end up with strife and conflict from external and internal threats, but I hope to see it come from different sources. This is a very mythical and mystical setting and I'd like to see it remain so, for good and bad. I am eager to see what new rivalries and blood feuds might be created, along with legends, artifacts and bloodlines.

[Nanzi]

I expect we'll still end up with strife and conflict from external and internal threats, but I hope to see it come from different sources. This is a very mythical and mystical setting and I'd like to see it remain so, for good and bad. I am eager to see what new rivalries and blood feuds might be created, along with legends, artifacts and bloodlines.

I am all about creating new legacies too.

[Hantei Kinsen]

It's a game.

Let's have fun, and allow others to have fun, too. It shouldn't be someone's thesis or utopia, if not what we, as a collective of players having fun decide, and Orokos so wishes to make it happen.

All hail Birb!

[Jin]

I think a lot also depends on how big of time jumps between games the GMs decide to go with. About the only 'big' human/Kami war I could see soon, if both survive this, is Hantei versus Fu Leng.

Otherwise, even with the 'teachings of Tengoku' it would take a long time to go from sparse tribes to big enough clans that expansionist conflict feels right. Especially with most of the Kami getting along relatively well and being able to mediate as family.

[Togashi Saruko]

In canon, apart from the War Against Fu Leng, I don't think there were any wars between the clans while the Kami were still alive?

I could be misremembering of course, but I seem to recall that the First Yasuki War was like the first big inter-clan conflict, and also spawned the Imperial Law of "no war between the clans" (which the clans proceeded to ignore as they pleased over the centuries to follow? ).

[Doji Kaze]

I think what I want most is for us to talk about our intentions openly. I'm not saying that all players need to conform to my style of play, but I feel as though I would be doing you all a disservice to let you think I was fine with or eager to see a nastier, more brutal Rokugan. My intentions for my character and the setting are clearer now than when I wasn't saying anything, and I appreciate Nanzi's intentions a lot more now that I understand where he's coming from.

[Jin]

Jin, the character, very much wants a happy, and peaceful realm. One where tribes join of their own will or are left to their own devices as opposed to conquered or assimilated.

Jin's player is more 'roll with the punches and plot threads and see what happens in the moment' as opposed to setting out with a future in mind and has thoughts on where Jin's path goes whether we end up with 'nasty and brutish' Rokugan, 'happy and shiny' Rokugan, or the more likely somewhere in between.

[Togashi Saruko]

I just want wuxia fantasy (but will settle with Shiba's version of wuxia fantasy).

As a player, I'm fine with a lot of variation, but mostly I want just that; variation. Since we have the possibility to play in a "what if"-scenario now (as presented in Imperial Histories 1 and 2), I want to just go deep down in the rabbit hole and see how far we can go to create a different Rokugan.

[Nanzi]

I support wuxia.

[Hanzou]

Generally, these games go along the lines of what the GM has planned with input from players via polls and game results. Individuals can certainly have significant impact on the setting, but not to the point where it would drastically alter other plans and results. After the first game, it seems likely that this setting will stay peaceful overall. There will be conflict and some individuals may take darker paths, but I doubt this will become KyD or Clan Wars.

I think we'll see some human/non-human conflict, but not the genocide of the Hantei Dynasty. I am very curios as to what will happen with the Kitsu and the other races.

[Hantei Kinsen]

Generally, these games go along the lines of what the GM has planned with input from players via polls and game results. Individuals can certainly have significant impact on the setting, but not to the point where it would drastically alter other plans and results. After the first game, it seems likely that this setting will stay peaceful overall. There will be conflict and some individuals may take darker paths, but I doubt this will become KyD or Clan Wars.

I think we'll see some human/non-human conflict, but not the genocide of the Hantei Dynasty. I am very curios as to what will happen with the Kitsu and the other races.

Seconded

Although there's chance of great conflict with other races still. And, polls.

[Canary]

This game has the potential of leading things to a darker turn than is typical, but in general, and especially for this setting, I prefer to let players have a heavier hand in guiding the setting (within reason, we're not going to be jumping tech levels suddenly or anything unless the timeline screams way ahead). That's the whole point in my mind is creating a different sort of Rokugan together with all of you.

[Hanzou]

Are you saying the Bat should stop work on the DeLorean?

[Jiyo Ayumu]

A bit surprised as all characters with which Ayumu has interacted so far are actually quite tolerant, and keen to avoid a massacre, cultural or actual, of the existing tribes. Not necessarily with the same degree of eagerness and idealism, but the wind definitely blows in the direction of tolerance.

Well, except for Nanzi. Nanzi's a bully.

Note that I tend to not read threads I don't participate to (there are just so many of them and I need to sleep), so this might be a huge sampling bias.

I sometimes feel like sempai is deliberately forgetting to invite me to some meetings...